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November 24, 2009

Comments

Dave Merriman

Paying any attention at all to Tokarski is the first mistake...

Mark T

The assumption that because you found someone else with SFB ... and that you are therefore not a mushhead ... this is a logical fallacy of some sort. Please consult your pamphlet.

Merriman - take me on sometime, wimp.

Wulfgar

My "pamphlet" tells me that you can't prove a negative, asshole; nor was I attempting to. I don't need or care to prove anything to you. There is no fallacy here.

There is nothing here except fear and loathing of Democrats. Those are the same things they share with our beloved Mr. Tokarski. Fear and Loathing of Democrats. But notice please that Mark T doesn't care about the real threats to reason or sanity. He cares about bringing Democrats down. That is the same objective and spew of these wackos.
Mark T

You are a lost soul, a carrier of the virus of received wisdom which says that even though what we are doing is not working, we must keep on doing it because not doing it will yield even worse results!

Better minds look at this situation and set aside received wisdom, and look for better ways to address our problems.

It has been this way all throughout history. Your thoughts are pedestrian, your solutions a cry of futility. You are perpetually occupied disassembling the word construction of others, a nice hobby. You never seem to grasp the larger points.

You are a waster of time, mostly.

Dave Merriman

Tokarski's responses amply demonstrate why he is unworthy of the attention he gets: rather than respond with intellect, he substitutes invective; instead of ability, he uses attitude; he substitutes name-calling and ridicule for reasoned argument and civil discourse.

That's why I submit that paying any attention to his bilious mental spew isn't worth the time or effort.

Wulfgar

We've heard it all before. To Mark, the "deeper meaning" is that Democrats are bad and must be replaced. Of course, because he is a victim of circular reasoning, his only option is to replace them with people who will also buy into the same corrupt structures, or Republicans who already have. Repeat and rinse.

Given that, his complaints against me are classic projection.

troutsky

I don't know who is who in this food fight but am interested in the reaction of progressives to the dismal record of reforms in the legislative arena.I come from a radical left-labor perspective and wonder at what point disappointment translates into a broader analysis, one that includes a critique of capitalism?

Wulfgar

Good to hear from you troutsky. I read your stuff from time to time.

Aside from the pissing match between Mark and myself, I think you'll find that even among Democrats there is a very large critique going on of capitalism within this democratic structure we have to frame it, mostly focused on the socialist urge for health care.

I would sincerely love to expand on the topic, but it hasn't been a nice day, and I'm having a hard time focusing.

Mark T

Wulfgar - It's Plutonomy, and there is no critique of that problem going on within the Democratic Party. Until you establish in your mind the dominance of private wealth over politicians, you will not have anything of value to offer in this debate. You cannot get to that substance, and are stuck on form.

Merriman - you spent yourself there - depending on time of day and who I am dealing with, it varies. Wulfgar bore down on me over at Left in the West and got a wolf by the ears, and now throws invective my way as if I started this fight.

My critique is of our poltiical structure - I say that we cannot get true reform in any area for so long as money and votes were supplied by different people (i.e.,campaign fianance reform). We operate on a contradiction - the people who finance the politicians and the people who vote for them are different subsets. Until they are one and the same, we cannot achieve any kind of meaningful reform.

See how Wulfgar has taken that: He says I said that Democrats are bad and must be replaced. That's about as reductionist as you can be, but it really is that simple - he's a Democrat, and it became a turf war. No high ideals for systemic reform with him - just me bashing Democrats.

And I have been hard on Democrats. You are the ones who we need for reform, but you simply absorb energy without giving us change. I know Republicans, I like many of them, and I know what they are. Democrats portend to be something different, but they never do anything different.

So anyway, that is my sin. I criticized Democrats.The venom in your words about me tend to make me think that you are a Democrat too. Just remember that I appraoched this subject frrom a high angle, citing structural problems, and see then how Wulfgar reduced that to Democrats are bad and must be replaced.

Now, if you want to deal with me, do so on the higher level. You'll find that I can be reasoned with, even reached. If you want to join Wulfgar in his Big D turf war, then you will find that I don't have much patience for party hacks. Don't grab my ears.

Wulfgar
Wulfgar - It's Plutonomy, and there is no critique of that problem going on within the Democratic Party.

No shit, Sherlock. I know what it's called, and everyone else here does as well. As for there being no critique going on in the party or among Democrats, you really need to get out more. John Kerry, the richest of the rich, discussed plutonomy as regards our military recruitment and was castigated as all hell for it by the wingnuts. I can list at least 6 liberal blogs that have focused on the wealth gap without even trying. All you've just told me is that you don't know shit about the what's actually happening in the world.

You cannot get to that substance, and are stuck on form.

Aristotle: "form follows function", asshole. You can't focus on the 'substance' until you recognize the form for what it is. You've simply decided that the form is whatever you want it to be, and create your fantasy from that. I'd like to think that you do that because you're a FOX watching wingnut, but in your case, it's just because you're a loon.

He says I said that Democrats are bad and must be replaced. That's about as reductionist as you can be

No Mark, you've said that, many many many times. "Democrats are the problem". That's a direct quote from you. You use the word "reductionist"? I don't think you know what it means. You never discuss systemic reform, Mark. You simply point fingers at those who don't agree with your reduction, and then assume you know their thoughts. That's DELUSIONAL!

You are the ones who we need for reform, but you simply absorb energy without giving us change.

There you go with the second person voice again. I can only assume that you can't escape it ... because you're fucking delusional. Everybody is the enemy to you. Hence you accuse away without any recognition of what another may think or feel. You need help.

Wulfgar bore down on me over at Left in the West and got a wolf by the ears,

Oh, you're a wolf now? Sorry dude, I've met you. You thought I was overbearing because you are a mouse. You are not well adjusted socially, so you've turned to the Internet to get your power yayas out. Hey, no problem. Not many of us online are socially well adjusted, but at least most of us recognize our failings. You, not even in the least. You have your delusion and you will exert your prowess over any who bother to recognize that you have ... issues. So, yeah, I started this because I recognized that you have issues. All I did was point out that you might want to address those, and then it was 'game on'.

Since you've obviously forgotten, Tokarski, I've tried many times to help and assist you. I don't blame you for that; it just doesn't fit your delusional mental narrative. I've forgiven many of your transgressions. But what you can't forgive is the fact that I saw them and recognized what they were in the first place, a product of your need to be 'special'.

I didn't call a turf war, Mark. You did. You want the Internets to be your "special" place where you get to be oh so "special". Well guess what, asshole. It ain't gonna happen here. You don't understand people, you don't understand the Intertubes, you don't understand me and you don't understand blogs. Quit while you're behind.

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