Why I Think The 'Neighborhood Zone' Idea Is Full Of Crap

I like Jeff Krause, the once and future mayor of Bozeman.  I really do.  He has a really good fantastical idea of how things 'ought' to work in the town.  Okay, not so much town anymore, but city.  Ya' see, Jeff's idea is neighborhood communities, groupings of business and residence such that people can co-exist with pride in neighborhood, and lack of strife.  What a load of crap.

This idea would be sterling in Philly, or Denver, or Pheonix.  Not so much in Bozeman.  Montana is mobile and, gas prices not withstanding, it will remain so.  People will drive a block to go to the store.  I'm not making this up, and I can't fall in line with the fantasy that does make this up.  That would be Jeff's fantasy ... and it doesn't apply to the real world.

It should be obvious that the only reason I care about this is because I have a fricking BAR across the street.  Jeff rightly portrays it as a 'neighborhood pub', though technically it is a 'tasting room'.  Bullshit.  It is a bar, complete with priviledged regular customers and a negative impact on the area.  Honestly, I try as hard as I can to ignore the negative impact, but there really is no ignoring it.  There is no parking, there is noise, there is outside drunkenness and there is confrontation.  There are those who damage property in adjacent areas, and freely allow their dogs to do the same.  (Do you really need the pictures of the drunk assholes who throw rocks at my tree, or my house, or the dogshit that actually litters the sidewalk in front of my residence?  If you'd like, I can post the pictures of the toddlers who are left playing on the walkway in front while their parents are in getting sauced.  Family-friendly pub, indeed.)  I am not out of line in saying that this 'happy neighborhood pub' will negatively impact the resale value of my house.  And it certainly negatively impacts the quality of my life in this neighborhood.

Just 30 minutes ago:

Me, opens front door and speaks to the guy who just parked his motorcycle half in front of the driveway:  "Excuse me.  Could you please move your bike out from in front of the driveway.  Please."

Dipspork:  "Yeah.  But there's a curb here."  (Points to the rear tire against the slope of the curb leading into the driveway.)

Me:  "Yeah, but your front tire is parked in front of the driveway.  Couldn't you just move the bike?"

DS:  "What?  Who's comin' in here?"

Me:  "My wife will be coming home soon.  Could you please just move your bike?"

DS:  "Man, I can park here.  I'll just be here for a while.  You can still pull in."

Me:  " Fine.  You can argue with me, or I'll call the cops and you can fucking argue with them."

DS:  "Fine!  Call the cops."

He pulled the bike back, which would have been completely acceptable.  But apparently, he didn't really trust that I wouldn't call the cops  (I did and will continue to, and one does wonder what he had to hide ...).  He left not one minute later.  And that's the point.  These asses know that they are doing the wrong thing, but they won't care unless there are legal consequences.  Neighborhood zones?  They only work when it's neighbors who are affected.  In Bozeman?  Assholes rule.

I'm sorry, Jeff.  The neighborhood zone idea is a really good fantasy.  But in Montana, especially as regards alcohol provision, it's a load of crap.  I fully expect my tires to be slashed tonight.  It won't be the first time, but hey ... it's all about the neighborhood pub, right?

Comments

[polzoo]

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[jeff]

That's what I like about you, always a kind word...and I mean that. Compared to what people who want to dump five million city dollars into an old frat house are saying about me, "full of crap" is pretty darn social.

The uses allowed in the neighborhood are eclectic and diverse, manufacturing, lumber, warehousing, railroading, brewery, etc. The neighborhood celebrates it's "mixed use"...except when any use impinges on residential and then the wrath of the neighborhood arises for being treated differently than "those people in their mansions on the south side".

Now wulfgar, you don't really espouse that so I'm flagellating you with something not your doing, but it's a common enough complaint from that neighborhood.

The street is for everyone, including the patrons of the tasting room. Parking is like driving, people from all over the city can do both, as long as they obey the laws. The street was built to collector standards, wide, because it's someday destined to be that, in my opinion, a long time from now, and I wont see it from where I'm lying, but someday. And the owner of the brewery has done a yeoman job of discouraging everyone but me from parking in front of your house.I try to leave work on Fridays early enough to get my pickup, with the BZNMAYOR plates, in front of your house before you get home...

The brewery is up against a manufacturing plant, and a building materials distributor. The tasting room closes at 8(???) pm, and is only allowed to serve three beers per person. It really is quite a great collection of people that hang out there...for the most part. Lots of engineers and planners and city blue collar workers and responsible types.

Senator Tester and staff had a great time when I took them there.

Now, there ARE a lot of free spirits who think laws don't apply to them that frequent this establishment, I'll grant you. Generally, their political beliefs fall where? What made an old Deadhead into an exacting pragmatic libertarian hedonist that thinks people oughta be responsible for themselves or have their bikes backed over by a '49 Powerwagon? The same kind of freeloading free spirits that haunt you, wulfgar. Wanting something for nothing, infringing on people and making it all about them, and the hell with everyone else. They're entitled to park in front of your house, right? It's, like, owned by the public and it's free speech, man. Besides, they're reducing their carbon footprint, you know?

As an aside, as if this whole post isn't, I think you're a mountain man trapped in an urban setting, yearning to be free to fire a shot or two off the port bow of your front porch. You've actually got as good a situation as a person could expect in Bozeman. You could live in one of those neighborhoods with the associations that don't allow clothes to be dried outside or political signs...

However, I've frequently discussed this little conundrum in a general sense, and I do have a solution. Which is to create these "urban hamlets", and if the commercial strip is in the center of the neighborhood, it's along the minor arterial or major connector. This provides parking and a traffic corridor without funneling it through the residential areas.

In older cities, these are called "streetcar commercial strips" which most closely resemble a truncated bozeman main street, of four or five blocks along a minor arterial, and surrounded by residential. They've usually got the little italian or greek bar/restaurant on one corner, and a few boutique shops, etc.

As for the specific situation, I do like the tasting room and don't regret putting it there, even though that does make me, like, a whore for the man, and I don't think I was actually there for that vote, but I would have voted for it, no doubt. It did change the nature of the end of the street, I know.

So go ahead, hate me. I always toast you with a great black thick malty porter whenever I'm in there.

Owners of dogs at large should be ticketed. People who break the parking laws should be ticketed. People who actually drink three of those beers should have a driver.

But the Bozone's a nice local business, and being a yokel, I buy local. Got a couple of growlers and everything. Even have a great pic of Tester with a Bozone hat and a Bozone beer.

Yep, all politics is definitely local.

I'll ask the cops to drive by on fridays.

[Wulfgar]

Jeff, you bring up several points ... even good ones. (And, since I don't tend to comment on the issues from other locals, I appreciate the points you bring up there as well. Many of your ideas I believe to be better suited for Missoula than Bozeman. Mores the pity.)

Since I was a little too annoyed to make this clear, I like your ideas about community construct. I really do. I don't think they apply here.

First, even though it's an Ad Hominem argument, you are right that I am a rural guy trapped in an urban setting. But it wasn't always like this on the North Side. I'm not new to the area, so this isn't a case of someone moving into a situation that they want to change to suit them. I've lived through many changes in this part of town, and I can state, for the most part, most of them have been for the worse.

Second, don't bother the cops. I try my best not to. That's one of the things that galls the hell out of me ... being required to demand legal satisfaction for what should just be obviously polite. If you're going for the ad hominem, kindly recognize that there are people who feel entitled, and I'm not among them. I don't like hassling the police to take care of my problems. But if I need them, it's my job to contact them, not yours.

Third, since he and I had our first conversation, at no point ... EVER ... have I blamed Todd for his patron's behavior. It's just part and parcel of the business, and that's why I attack the view that attempts to tell me that that's a good thing, and not a negative for those who live here. Should I attempt to sell, that I might have my cabin in the deep woods, this situation will affect the resale value. That's a city problem, not an owner problem.

Fourth, you are very good at bringing up what "should be". If you take a look, so am I. Perhaps we're both curmudgeons. But I'm the one with kids (dogs, idiots, good working folk)on my lawn (literally). 'Should be' doesn't cut it. And that was the point of this post.

Fifth, quit rubbing my nose in the hang time you get to spend with Senator Tester. I helped get him elected. Did you? Seriously, Jeff. That's quite deliberately annoying and rather petty.

Sixth, the reason your ideas concerning density establishment fail here is because of the very "free-loading free spirits" you bring up. This is a town full of said, regardless of political affiliation (which was an unnecessary and pointless jab). It would be better for Bozeman to find peace with density improvement areas. That's not realistic. Density isn't desired among those who have the idea that what is theirs is theirs, and rubbing elbows should always favor them. Density only encourages more confrontation. I wasn't saying that I "hate you". That's your issue. I just think you're wrong.

Finally, I think the only real issue that anyone has with the bar is parking (though I personally am really sick of the goddamned noise). I don't live in a vacuum. I've talked about this with many of our neighbors. We all agree. Something bad will happen. Cars parked beyond the curve of Avocado? Cars parked on the unfinished rough across the road? There will be damage, and no doubts the city response will be "we never saw it coming".

My beloved had a great idea. Shift the entrance of the Brew Pub to the back. People are, at heart, lazy. If you give them a reason to not be a problem, they will take it in a New York Minute. But, after your comment here, I do have to wonder if it just gives you too much enjoyment to complain about us North Side whiners, and how we have a problem with you. No. We really have a problem here, and few seem to be listening.

[jeff]

Now now. I take your posts in the spirit they're offered. No ad hominems at all...nothing wrong with being a wide open spaces guy at all...what was that you called me that first attracted my attention?

If you really do have a problem, then let's talk. Todd might need to remodel soon as it is. Still the Bozone and Franks Sandwich shop are favorite little spots, both squeezed into less than perfect spots. Why? Because that's the toehold a local startup could find.

I'm not rubbin your nose in anything. I suspect your readers would be interested in the tasting room's clientele and ambience. Heck, if I could've gotten a hold of you, I would have invited you to join us.

I've spent time in Missoula and pay attention to what's going on there. I think we are ahead of them with planning and zoning issues. I can take only a little bit of credit, the ground was laid by others before me and I'm more derivative than innovative.

PS, as you know, city positions are non partisan. Potholes aren't republican or democrat, right? I'd argue that city government is at it's worst when it becomes partisan and ideological.

I take the internet for what it's worth, as they used to say on the poker machines before payouts were legal, "for entertainment purposes, only". Generally, I don't use it for serious discussions, which are best done face to face.

[jeff]

I'm not participating in the other thread. Too angry, and you've got all those guns.

It's Krauss; that's the patrician German, "hochdeutsch". The common folk spell it with an "e".