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July 20, 2006

Comments

Randy

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

Eric Coobs

The NRA is your friend.

It just sticks in your craw that the liberal Democrats are all gun-grabbers.

Get over it.

Wulfgar

Eric, I frequently wonder why you task yourself to comment when it's obvious that you haven't read the post or any link in it. If you're only going to respond to the voices in your head, please don't bother.

Eric Coobs

I read your post.

And if you want to rationalize why you shouldn't like the NRA, go ahead.

The second amendment isn't about hunting.

It's about guns.

The liberal Democrats are all gun-grabbers.

They hate the NRA.

As a liberal Democrat, you need to find reasons to hate the NRA also.

Wulfgar

That's nearly the sloppiest thinking I think I've ever seen.

1) Rationalizing isn't a bad thing. Too bad that you rarely do it. The NRA isn't your friend, but reason is. Do look into that, won't you?

2) The 2nd isn't about hunting. I concede the point. But it's a specious one, at best. If you'd actually read Schneider's piece, you'd know exactly why. There are ways to defend the 2nd as written without giving up my right (guarenteed by the Constitution of Montana) to hunt. The NRA works against my right to hunt, so why on Earth should I give them my money? I shouldn't.

3) According to you, Eric, Jon Tester is a liberal Democrat. According to you, Eric, Brian Schweitzer is a liberal Democrat. Both of them strongly support my right to own firearms and protect the environment such that I can hunt. According to you, Eric, all liberal Democrats are gun-grabbers. Quite obviously, you're full of shit, aren't you Eric?

Furthermore, you seem to think that not giving the NRA money equals hating the NRA. Rarely has a dumber thing been written. You can see that, right? The NRA used to be a different creature, but now they are a lobbyist group that works against my interests in support of candidates I don't approve of. The NRA doesn't deserve my money if they don't work for my interests. You, very much like the NRA, seem to think I owe them money to defend me against threats that aren't real, just because I shoot. That's not very "conservative" of you is it, Eric, telling me how I should spend my money. The only hate going on here is you hating the fact that I don't support your pet lobbyist concern. 'Not so sorry for that, kitten.

Justin

Sorry to chime in so late on what's probably a dead post, but hopefully you'll see this anyway wulfgar.

While I agree with you for the most part when it comes to the NRA (I won't send them my money either for the same reasons that you cite) I tend to make a distinction similar to that which I believe Eric may have been trying to make, I'm not sure.

There is a definite difference between Democrats, and "Liberal" Democrats. I would tend to consider people like Hitlery and Ted Kennedy to be "Liberal" Democrats, not people like Brian Schweitzer and Jon Tester. I would consider them, as I consider you, to be more "Montana" Democrats, which are an entirely different and far more tolerable breed altogether. "Liberal" Democrats do indeed tend to be "gun grabbers", Montana Democrats do not, at least not if they want to serve multiple terms in office anyway. I could be a long way off as far as Eric is concerned, but this is how I look at the matter anyway.

Wulfgar

Justin, I see what you're saying. But Eric's world is pretty black-and-white. He believes that liberal preceeds Democrat in all cases; and the source of my discomfort is that I am a "gun grabber" and remain unhappy with it. He's wrong in both cases.

As to those Democrats who do favor gun control, I remain universally happy that they don't live here. They would have a short and tragic political life if they did. The thing is, those folk have strong political lives because the majority of their constituants favor gun control as well as they do. What flies in Boston or New York certainly wouldn't in Bozangeles. But despite the NRA's fearmongering, they will never be able to pass or enforce big city gun control here in the sticks. The assault weapons ban was a joke in Montana, where any gunsmith worth his salt could aquire large mags or bayonet fits completely under the table, and then claim 'pre-ban'.

And one thing I have never encountered -ever- was a politician who thought it rational, effective or even possible to remove guns from private citizen's homes by force or taking. I challenged Eric once to show me one. He has yet to do so.

Justin

The actual "taking" hasn't happened, at least not here anyway, but I do know of several out of state immigrants that moved here because their home states had sent them a notice that they had such and such amount of time to turn in their semi automatics or have them confiscated. One guy that lives next door to my friend in Columbus, moved here from Connecticut I do believe but I could be wrong, because it was either that or lose his Ruger 10/22. Another disturbing trend that I see more and more of from the feds, is to simply make gun ownership such a liability/hassle that people will simply lose interest in it. Laws allowing the prosecution of a gun owner for negligence because his gun was stolen and used in a crime are a perfect example. If someone steals your car and runs it through a crowd killing 20 people, you'll get nothing but sympathy because your car was stolen. Somebody steals your gun and uses it to shoot a gang banger in a drug deal gone bad, you can go to jail in some cases. Add that to other laws such as proposed exise taxes on ammo that thankfully have so far failed to pass, and it becomes obvious that there is a strong effort to "take" peoples' guns by other means if not by force. They know they'd have another "insurgency" to deal with if they started kicking in doors and carrying off armloads of hunting rifles, but people will sit idly by as they make gun ownership socially unacceptable or simply too expensive to be worthwhile. As you know however, I don't blame these sorts of things on one political party or the other, I see "the government" as one entity, and I think they're all in bed together. The "liberal" Democrats attack the Second Ammendment, the "Conservative" Republicans attack the rest of the Constitution, it's just a matter of time until they can come out of the closet and no one will be able to do a damn thing about it. But once again, I wholeheartedly agree with you that the NRA is definitely not our savior, most of what I see from them simply helps to galvanize the beliefs of the pro-gun control folks back East that all gun owners are wackos and a danger to society, but then again, maybe that's all part of the plan. ;)

bill p.

well what a bunch of cry baby bull! If you dont like the nra thats your right but at least they do take a stand against the gun grabbers which is more than I can say for all the comments made above.Please tell me what is it that you are doing to help protect the 2nd amdt. I bet the answer is nothing.If you stand by and do nothing to protect your gun rights than who is the coward? I will be willing to bet these cry baby dummie crats will turn in there gun if told to in a heart beat.And will let there future rights be taken 1 by 1 . I know that will never happen or will it? But if it does you will no longer be a coward you will be a slave.

MarcEvan

I read the posts and article at New West. The American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA) is...I believe...the same organization that was going to offer a fenced in hunt of trophy size bucks and bulls in Minnesota on private land. This group (AHSA) is very anti NRA and is about doing a real disservice to hunters by making hunters looks like drooling lunatics with a rifle with the pursuit of the ultimate "kill" to hang on their wall.
Please if you are in Montana and serious about protecting your gun rights join the National Rifle Association and also join the Montana Shooting Sports Association. Their website is www.mtssa.org

Steven

It’s very simple! The NRA is not just about Gun's! If you allow the Government to change the 2nd Amendment! The same one that our forefather’s fond so important that they listed it second! Then what will stop the Government from removing the 1st Amendment? You know they won't change the 14th Amendment. Read, learn, educate your self on all your FREEDOMS and then once you are thankful for the ones you have respect the ones other consider just as important.

Dave

Eric Coobs,

I own guns, and have a concealed carry permit. I don't support an assault weapons ban. If I want to own a fully-auto AR15, I should have that option. I don't hunt, but don't deride those who do. But Wulfgar is right on all the points he makes.

By the way, I am a liberal democrat with a concealed carry permit, and you are an intellectual relic. Your fear domination by one group (gun-grabbers) makes you a slave to someone else's ridiculous philosophy, allowing yourself to be dominated by another (the NRA).

Dave

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