« Whose Side Are You On? | Main | Satire Is Not Just Mockery »

June 26, 2011

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d83451d65569e20154334707c3970c

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Messaging The Illusion:

Comments

Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

Great read.

lizard

Rob, you are a sniveling little coward. you like comments by Larry about taking it up the pooper, but you take down my comment about neoliberalism. Coward.

Wulfgar

For anyone who isn't having a complete temper tantrum, Lizard left no comment to be deleted. If anyone else saw this phantom comment, please speak up.

Mark

Politicians "sabotaging" the economy (or whatever else they choose to sink their greasy meathooks into) for political expediency is not solely the modus operandi of the republican party, both parties have done it throughout history (to our detriment) and hence is largely responsible for the wrecking ball of indifference that has bludgeoned me these last few years. Looks like I missed some drama in the comment section...

Wulfgar

Since Lizard seems incapable of responding to email, let's dance.

Mark

Me?? I didn't think I said anything of a particularly hyper-partisan nature....

Craig Moore

Lizard, until you encounter these words, "The site has blocked you from posting new comments," you have nothing to cry about. That statement greets me at ID.

BTW, I HAVE had comments removed from both B-Birds and ID. You have your soapbox. Enjoy!

Moorcat

Frankly, who gives a good god damn if the Republicans are not the only ones that can do it? Did you miss the part about our economy coming crashing down if the debt ceiling isn't lifted? This is the issue NOW and it is NOW that we have to deal with it. If the Republicans can't compromise in good faith, if they really are willing to throw the US economy under the bus to "make Obama look bad", then they should reap the rightous indignation of the entire country. Make no mistake, if Aug 2nd comes around, and there is no increase in the debt limit, the shit is really going to hit the fan. Federal Workers will not get paid. Active Duty Military will not get paid. Social Security will not get paid. Welfare (even for those that really do need it) will not get paid. Federal (read - military) disability will not get paid.

Immediately following that will be the enivitable run on banks (remember this tune from the 1930's?) to pull money from savings to "tide people over". The banks rapidly run out of money and since the Fed has no money to back them up, they start failing.

Where the bottom of this nasty well is, no one really knows. This situation is far more dangerous than a government shutdown. Worse, if the US credit rating is pulled, things get really interesting. Bonds fail or reduce in value. The stock market does a plunge the likes of which none of us have never seen.

All of this so that the Republicans can make the President look bad...

Now here is a question... What is to stop Obama from declaring an emergency (if the it looks like the US is about to go bankrupt) and truly take over?

Wulfgar

It's not quite that dire ... yet.

1) There remains the possibility that the Republicans will blink first. That's only going to happen in they get the very clear message that the electorate is pissed off at them. Obama's presser yesterday was a salvo fired towards that effort. He made it very clear if things go terribly wrong, we should blame those who failed to do the people's work. Then he pointed straight at the Republcans and their leadership. Notice that he didn't just ask for the Republicans to accept the meager revenue increases already negotiated. He called for the rich to pay more, and drew a very clear picture between those supporting their families and the corporate jet crowd. Reid followed up today by refusing to dismiss the Senate for the Independence holiday, and pointed to Boehner's lack of will to do the same to the House. Freshmen Republicans are rumbling that they will sign no more pledges of austerity. They're scared of the electorate, and finally they should be. It seems the Democrats have found their 'angry' voice, and most people are listening.

In a way, the Republicans deserve some credit for that. Everybody whose ever had a dog should see why. No matter how weak willed the animal is, if you offer it a toy and then pull it away at the last minute with a reprimand, they will quickly lose interest in the toy. The silly think they've taught the animal to leave the toy alone. In truth, all they've learned is that they don't have to listen to you because you make no sense. Keep your damned toy, if it's that important to you. That's what the Republicans have done for Democrats, and the people are beginning to see it. Lucy (R-sadist) hasn't just been pulling the football away from Democrats, but from the American people. And now they've drawn that 'comic' so big that all can see it.

For the record, it is under these circumstances that I find the continuing effort to make "Democrat" a dirty word so abhorrent.

2) Obama probably doesn't have Constitutional grounds to declare a fiscal emergency. But he has the power to control where the revenue stream goes. He's already asked pointedly of the Republican leadership if he is to be refusing payment to Grandma in favor of Chinese creditors. I'm certain he will make default far more painful for the moneyed than for most of the rest of us. And they know it.

3) It is possible that the debt ceiling itself is unconstitutional. However, Congress has a very poor record of ever getting a Constitutional challenge heard. If citizens or corporations sue, on the other hand ...

Craig Moore

Rob, you say, "He made it very clear if things go terribly wrong, we should blame those who failed to do the people's work."

Today I read Alan Greenspan say:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43598606


The Federal Reserve's massive stimulus program had little impact on the U.S. economy besides weakening the dollar and helping U.S. exports, Federal Reserve Governor Alan Greenspan told CNBC Thursday.

In a blunt critique of his successor, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, Greenspan said the $2 trillion in quantative easing over the past two years had done little to loosen credit and boost the economy.

"There is no evidence that huge inflow of money into the system basically worked," Greenspan said in a live interview.

"It obviously had some effect on the exchange rate and the exchange rate was a critical issue in export expansion," he said. "Aside from that, I am ill-aware of anything that really worked. Not only QE2 but QE1."

Greenspan’s comments came as the Fed ended the second installment of its bond-buying program, known as QE2, after spending $600 billion. There were no hints of any more monetary easing—or QE3—to come.

Greenspan said he "would be surprised if there was a QE3" because it would "continue erosion of the dollar."

Seems like blame is for suckers and political vultures. The hard part is addressing the concern your brother poses. However, if blame is more important than leadership Obama should holster his finger and be first to walk the plank.

Craig Moore

Also, as to your claim, "It seems the Democrats have found their 'angry' voice, and most people are listening." pollster has bad news for you: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/13/jobapproval-presobama-economy_n_726161.html

Obama's scorecard on the economy, in the eyes of 'angry' people is only getting worse. 57.5% disapprove while 36.8% approve. That blowback damages all Dem supporters of Obama's economic policies.

Wulfgar

~Heh~

I got your leadership right here, Craig.

You can quote Greenspan all you want, given that he was one of the authors of our economic collapse. There's a huge difference between the Federal Reserve's role in stimulus, and Congress's. I'm fairly certain that most folk here will recognize that. Greenspan is talking the credit economy, bankers taking from bankers. That isn't what's on the table, now is it? Now if'n you want to make the argument that FR=Illuminati then please do so. Otherwise, quit with the misdirection and bullshit. There is only one way to address the concerns my brother poses. Increase the debt ceiling. And there's only one way to make that a viable option acceptable for the people of this country. That is to raise taxes, period. No matter what Greenspan has to say, this must happen. Republicans won't do it.

This is a case where blame is leadership. The President is leading us against the very people who have claimed that it is to their benefit to destroy the country, or did you fail to read the post? That is leadership, and Greenspan's weak wail that we haven't stimulated the banks enough has no bearing on what the American people care about. Your viewpoint inspires animosity, and rightly so. As Greenspan hasn't figured out, this is a time in America when the rich should be giving to charity, not begging for it.

In truth, our leaders gave Republicans almost everything they wanted ... everything! But even that wasn't good enough. So now it's our turn to point righteous fingers and laugh at their incompetence, greed and yes, evil. Please don't think you can sway opinion by bringing up the King of irrelevant incompetence.

Craig Moore

Rob, these matters are all intertwined like a giant hairball. No bright line distinction can split the economic hairs into good and bad. Bernanke's flooding the financial markets with liquidity borrowed from countries like China only exasperated the pressures on the debt, and as Greenspan notes, has done little good. Can't intelligently discuss one without the other and make sense of the problem. Attack Greenspan all you want with snide remarks, but his point stands.

As to swaying opinion, both you and I know that's not going to happen at your blog.

Wulfgar

No, Craig. It's not that complex, and those who argue such only serve those who profit from the belief that it is. The flood of borrowed liquidity led to absolutely no ~that would be not any~ increase in American investment or economic growth. It was a banker's lie, just as I said. The "debt" isn't the problem. The fact that we have little revenue to cover it is. people aren't spending, and many have nothing to spend. So, please, let's give another tax break to those who have but won't spend anyway. This isn't that complex at all. Greenspan's point is bullshit, disproven a hundred times over except among those who cling to the trickle down fantasy which has led to the very crisis we find ourselves in.

And if you think this blog sways no opinion, then quit reading it. Maybe it won't. What you responded to was the argument that the President was swaying opinion. Yet still you misdirect and claim that no opinion swaying is happening because you won't see it here. Your quip was way out of line, and kind of stupid in fact. That was truly an ass-holish thing to write.

Craig Moore

Actually Rob, my remark to you was well earned on your part. Your insulting condescension earns you a return of serve with a little english added. Don't presume to know what I think.

I have no illusions whatsoever about swaying opinion about what I write here or anywhere else. Apparently, you do.

People come to blogs with their opinions intact and leave with same. The audience is rather small and strong willed. I thought you knew that by now.

Turner

I'm just going to say it: the current batch of Republicans are traitors to their country.

Pete Talbot

NY Times conservative columnist David Brooks makes some similar points to your post: The Republican Party is acting against the interests of this country. It is a refreshing read from someone who tilts right.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/opinion/05brooks.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=david%20brooks&st=Search

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

Read This!

Friends like Family

Blog powered by Typepad